David Kertzer on what it means to have an American pope

Q: When you found out Robert Francis Prevost would become the next pope, what was your reaction?

It was a surprise, for various reasons. The favorites on the betting market were mostly Italian cardinals and one Filipino cardinal. Prevost initially had only a 2% chance of being elected; when the white smoke went up so quickly, his prospects dwindled to two-tenths of a percent. Everyone assumed that, with an election that quick, whoever was chosen couldn’t possibly be a dark horse. Additionally, it’s been taken as an article of faith by everyone in the Vatican that there would never be an American pope. The United States is too politically strong; it was thought that an American pope might be too intimidating. 

Q: How do you think an American “dark horse” gained favor in the conclave?

I believe that behind the scenes, Pope Francis had been promoting Prevost to some extent. A couple of years ago, Francis appointed him to a position within the Roman Curia, where he was responsible for selecting bishops worldwide. That allowed Prevost to get to know the cardinals within the Vatican, something that’s more difficult for cardinals who are based in other countries and continents. Prevost gained experience that Francis never had. He came to understand the power struggles and the politics of the Vatican. Before he was appointed to that position, he had also gained respect as the worldwide head of the Augustinian religious order.

Q: How have Italians reacted to Pope Leo XIV?

I think Italians always hope for an Italian pope — that’s how it was for centuries until recent decades. But judging by what the local newspapers are writing, Italians find the new pope to be likeable, approachable and humane. Some people, especially women, have said he has a “buon viso” — a good face, a friendly face. Jill Kimbal, News from Brown

Kertzer, a professor emeritus of social science, anthropology and Italian studies at Brown University, has spent decades studying and writing about papal history. At the end of the interview he talks about his present research: "I’ve become fascinated by one aspect of what happened when Benito Mussolini created anti-Jewish laws in 1938: Thousands of Jews, in an attempt to escape persecution, rushed to get baptized and have their racial identity changed from Jewish to Aryan — i.e., Catholic. In some cases, that decision literally saved their lives. It’s not something Italians like to think or talk about today.